Friday, November 9, 2007

Reinventing Lead



SHOT DESIGN

The Gauge of a shotgun is a unit of measurement used to express the diameter of the barrel. The gauge of the inside diameter of a barrel corresponds with the number of identical solid spheres that can be made from a pound of lead. 

From the definition above, it is not difficult to understand how ingrained lead is to the engineering of shotgun. William Watts of England is credited with the development of modern shot with the erection of the first shot towner in 1769. Lead's first use as a projectile no doubt has to occur sometime before that (any historian out there?). It is obvious that current lead shot loading data must have been derived from the wealth of an accumulation of some 300 year's worth of empirical data. 

Shots which deviate significantly in density and hardness from that of lead such as steel, bismuth or other variety of tungsten alloys must have gone through a lot of try-and-error tinkering in the loading data, amid special wads and buffering, etc.  so to retrofit in the lead-centric shotgun design.

When Big Dan first contacted me sometime in March 2003 to inquire about the feasibility of manufacturing of a non-toxic shot, I was so pleasantly surprised in how we thought in unison. First of all, we both agreed that non-toxic alternatives such as armor piercing heavy pellets were neither necessary nor efficient, not to mention their harshness to the gun barrels. In fact, it's simply a waste of energy whenever a pellet pierces through a quarry. Other alternatives such as steel and bismuth shot just don't cut it. Thus, the idea of reinventing lead was borne. 

With all the virtues of lead (engineering speaking), it does have one major flaw, other than its toxicity: it's just too soft. When a shell is fired, the gas pressure from the explosion pushes the pellets forward. The rear end ones collide with the front ones and deform. These deformed pellets, upon air resistance in the flight, will scatter around and interfere the shot pattern. For high end lead shot, antimony is usually added to harden the lead, which, to some extend, does correct the flaw a bit.

While at it seeking a non-toxic solution, we thought we might as well go all the way to make a 'perfect' shot that does not deform under the gas pressure, yet it must not be too hard to damage a gun barrel or be armor piercing. Upon impact, we do want the shot to deform and to deliver maximum energy to the quarry according to the principle of terminal ballistic. It must be malleable and be as dense as lead as possible. I liken this engineering feat of finding such a sweet spot of density/hardness to that of reinventing lead.

Since the product introduction, feedbacks from our customers have all been positive and reaffirming. ECOTUNGSTEN™ Nice Shot™ has indeed achieved its design goal as a worthy non-toxic successor of leadWe couldn't be happier. Kudos also go to our engineers who have done such a marvelous job in their relentless pursuit of perfection. It's been more than four years in the making.

RELOAD STRATEGY

If all you are given is a bunch of "cheap" shots that pattern very poorly, chances are you would instinctively load more shot in a shell to improve your odds of hitting a target. Quite plausibly, this natural instinct was what invented shot gun in the first place back in the olden days of hand cannons. 

However, overloading shells with shot is not an effective strategy for the following reasons:
  1. Given the same amount of charge, the resulting thrust it generates will be distributed among the projectiles, including wad, buffering material, etc. according the the Law of Conservation of Energy. Therefore, the more stuff you pack in a shell, the less energy each pellet will ultimately carry when it hits the quarry.
  2. As with the fire-exit of a room, if you fill the room with people beyond its capacity, evacuation will be slowed.  Even worst, stampede might occur in case of a fire. By the same token, if a shell is overloaded, the pellets will jam and interfere each other. Energy will therefore dissipate; and the shot pattern will be negatively affected. 
With Nice Shot, which already patterns so well, the loading strategy obviously should not be that of improving the hitting odds. Rather, it should be that of the economy of shot. i.e. What is the minimum number of pellets to load such that each pellet will carry maximum energy to the quarry?

Since Nice Shot has a density very close to that of lead, we can start off by leveraging the time honored lead loading data. From there, we can incrementally lower the number of pellets per load and study the patterns. This forum is open to all Nice Shot users to share their reloading experiences. We cordially invite you to participate and benefit the community. We are particularly fortunate to have Big Dan, a hunter, inventor and President of Nice Shot, Inc. as our moderator. 

Finally, while we are working hard to lower the cost of production and pass the savings back to you, we are pretty much powerless confronting the global energy and material price surges. Until such surges subside, minimizing the number of pellets per load will certainly help stretch the dollar a bit --  a nice little bonus for loading it right.

106 comments:

Huntschool said...

Dan:

Sounds like good stuff. I have a few questions:

Are you using lead loading figures for shot shells and what type of wad is required?

Next, and I know this is a bit ahead of itself, but is there any chance you may make #8 shot?

Big Dan said...

Yes, the standard loading tables and components for lead will work for this shot. The wads used were SP-10, RP-12 Remington or AA Winchester and several others. We have also found that high velocity loads are not needed or recommended. 1200 to 1250 fps loads are an excellent choice, and try down sizing you load too. 7/8 to 1-1/8 ounce payload. This will optimize the performance even more. And at the moment there are no plans to manufacture #8 shot because of the size. The smaller shot increases the difficulty to manufacture it.

Mike K said...

I just finished up loading my 1st reloads with NICE shot. My load was 1 oz of #5. I used PB powder and Federal Hulls with a recipe right out of the IMR book. The load chronographed at 1190 fps with a published chamger pressure of 4300 psi. The patterned a little tighter and quite a bit more even that lead 5's through an IC choke. This will be my pheasant load next fall.

Mike K said...

I had a chance to see some of the patterns that where tested on shells sold by RST. The person doing the testing simply said "We have a winner!" With RST's reputation for loading low recoil shotshells, I am sure their product will be very suitable for use in vintage side by sides.

Mr Majestic said...

I have yet to load my two keys of 5 shot and had planned to push 1 and 3/8th ozs. of them out of a Gold Medal hull with an RP12 and SR4756 (IMR Data). This was my feild proven lead load before "Big Brother" got involved. Are you recommending against it?

Anonymous said...

If the denisity is close to lead shouldn't the pattern density be equaled also?

I never shot less than 1 1/4 oz @ ducks when lead was the standard with 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 oz loads for those more distant shots. I always assumed that was because the pattern thinned out at longer distances and to maintain pattern density you had to have heavier loads.

Big Dan said...

Gentlemen,
My recommendations against the use of high payload rounds stems from the ideal of using square or balanced loads for better performance and less cost. A square or balanced load consists of the shot not being stacked higher than twice the diameter of its wad. The high payload rounds usually don't pattern as well or have more fliers away from the main pattern because of wind resistance and drafting. When a rear pellet in the column catches the one in front it pushed it or deflects it out of the way. This also accounts for gaps in an area of a pattern even though the total pattern stayed inside a 30" circle. Take a look at the pattern testing I did with the #4 shot at my website. www.niceshotinc.com Scroll down the main page and look at the difference just from using different chokes. I'm going to do the same for every size of shot we sell too.

You can still load your rounds the way you are comfortable with, I'm just trying to get the word out that 1 or 1-1/8 ounce loads can work just as well. And you can achieve the same velocity with less powder too. I might not sell as much shot this way but I'm sure your pocketbook or shoulder will like it better. And if more was always better, trap and skeet loads would be heavier.

At the time when economics is getting involved, one kilo or 2.205 lbs, or 35.2 ounces of shot can load ( 25 ) 1-3/8 ounce loads or ( 31 ) 1-1/8 ounce loads, or ( 35 ) 1 ounce loads.

And on the subject of velocity. If you have a good pattern and you think you need more knockdown power, just go up one shot size.

I am also glad that you have taken the time to post a comment on this blog and hope to hear more input from everyone.
Dan

Mike K said...

I like to stick with 1oz or even 7/8th ounce to keep the pressure down in older guns. I have used both for pheasants and have had good luck. I do, however, hunt over a pointer so my shots are typically closer. I like Dan's idea of a square load. One of the advantages of this NICE shot is that there should be less flyers secondary to the hardness of the shot that should minimize the deformation of the shot in the colume.

Anonymous said...

Big Dan. I shoot a 16ga O/U and like many upland hunters have struggled with a good non-toxic solution to lead performance. Nice Shot is a regaular topic of discussion on the 16ga society website. At 10.2 g/cc it seems to be an option. With Bismith (9.6 g/cc) currently not an option as a result of supply many of us have turned to Kent TM (10.8 g/cc). Hevi-shot (12 g/cc) has some outstanding performance but many of us either can't/don't want to shoot the load through our barrels. Without seeing an indepth ballistic comparison it's difficult to know where Nice Shot performance will fall into place compared to other non-toxic loads. It seems to me the published material on performance usually is done at 40 yards. Do you have data that would show at 40 yards what is the velocity, energy and penetration numbers? This would help many people, including myself, with a better feel for the performance.

Big Dan said...

Hello Gentlemen,
Nice to hear from the 16ga shooters. To be honest I personally don't have that 40 yard information. This shot will work through your barrels without special loading. Other products are too hard to be safe for gun barrels or possibly too soft not to deform under acceleration and cause erratic patterns.


I could talk until I'm blue about how good the shot is but the only way you'll be convinced is by using it.

Mike K. seems to have found his happy spot with Nice Shot.

Thanks again everybody keep us posted on how your hunts go or any new questions.

January 28, 2008 4:52 PM

Mike K said...

Having won $40.00 on a football board I decided to pattern test some NICE shot loads. My load is for a 12 gauge. I used 7/8th oz of #6 NICE shot. Velocity was chronographed at 3 feet from the muzzel and averaged 1290 FPS. I used IMR 7625 powder and was able to achieve the noted velocity at a published pressure of 5300 psi.
I did my patterning at 20 yards instead of the customary 30 yards because my patterning paper was not 30 inches across. As the results show, I didn't have to worry about my small paper!!
Results:

IC (10 thousands) 94% of the pattern inside a 22 inch circle

LM (15 thousands) 94% of the pattern inside a 20 inch circle

IM (20 thousands) 91% of the pattern inside an 18 inch circle.

These are incredibly tight patterns compared to even magnum lead shot. With all three chokes, I had more shot inside each of the described circles with 7/8th oz of NICE as I normally get with 1 oz of lead.

My suggestion is to loosen up 2 full choke constrictions when using NICE shot.

For those who do not reload, check out the offerings from RST. They have a history of producing a very fine product utilizing some sort of magic to keep velocities up while keeping recoil and pressure down.

Big Dan said...

As a reminder for the people that don't reload and have shotguns that will take modern pressures visit our online store.

Follow the link from: www.niceshotinc.com

Big Dan said...

I tried an interesting experiment to see how the shot deforms under chamber pressure and impact. This isn't high tech so try it if you like. I used two 1 gallon milk jugs filled with water at 30 yards. One jug in front of the other. I fired one round of our #4 shot and found to my surprise that most of the pellets made it through the first jug and into the second.

After draining the remaining water out of the jugs and retrieving the shot, I could clearly see on the shot pellets the deformation from the chamber pressure and the change in shape from the impact with the water.

Granted not all of the shot hit the jugs but it will show approximately how many hits would be on a bird that size.

Just thought I'd pass this along.
Dan

Anonymous said...

Dan,
Back when lead was legal I shot 11/2 oz with 3 Dr eq. (appox. 1100 fps) with excellent results. I think the lower vel. helped to maintain a tighter pattern. Do you think this would work with NICE shot?

Big Dan said...

Yes, read back through this blog and you'll see that I suggest using less velocity and less of a payload of shot. I've found that high velocity or high payload rounds, or a combination of both, waste shot.

Thank you for your comments and stay in touch!
Dan

Pat O said...

I quit hunting with 'modern shotguns' in 1988 and went to black powder muzzle loader side by side and black powder cartridge side by side. Most of my waterfowl shotguns are pre 1920 with thin fluid steel barrels or damascus/twist barrels that have been inspected including a 5x borescope and absolutely no pitting in barrels. My favorites are a Parker 10 gauge hammer gun if the geese are flying and either a Parker or a Remington 1889 12 gauge if only ducks are expected.
What my question is, is this safe for the old damascus/twist barrels and the thin walled older Browning and Remingtons ???
My current 12 gauge loads are 70 grains of 2F with 1 1/8 oz of Bismuth with a shot cup from a Win AA12 (white) or in 10 gauge, 115 grains of 2F with 1 1/4 oz Bizmuth and an RP10 shot cup. Patterns are tight and in the 10 gauge devastating over decoys to the point that I can not shoot at any duck or goose until it is at least 30 yards out due to destroying the meat. I only have a couple of lbs of Bismuth left and need a replacement shot that is safe in these old guns.

Big Dan said...

Pat,
I must say I appreciate your choice of shotguns, and we have used both wads that you spoke of in our testing. Both worked well too. The pliability of the shot is not an issue, and using extreme measures with velocity and choke constriction, we have only found a build up of tin in the chokes, much like lead and no barrel damage.
(Extreme measures = excessive velocity and extra full chokes.) Non of which you'll be using.

If you would send me an email at: Dan_Tercho@niceshotinc.com so we could correspond better.

All that aside, "Nice Shot" would work well for you.

Keep the posts going! Great to hear from everybody!
Dan

Anonymous said...

Hello,
Just bought some 7.5 shot to try out in my shotguns.I will be going out to South Dakota for some Pheasant,Sharptail and Duck hunting this fall.I plan on useing 7.5 shot for the upland birds and 4shot for puddle duck shooting.These are the shot sizes I use with my Hevi shot reloads for hunting,will the nice shot have the same characteristics as hevi shot in these shot sizes?I like the fact that I can use nice shot in my older double guns,plus not haveing to use special components to reload them is a big time saver.Do you need to use a buffer when useing the larger shot sizes like when loading steel shot?Sorry for the questions,but I will be reloading for the hunting crew on this trip.

Anonymous said...

Howdy Big Dan,
I am a waterfowler and a turkey killer.
I am thinking ab out buying some of the number 6 and 7.5 shot for reloads to be used for turkey target pattern testing.
have you had anytime for testing for pattern density and heavier payloads for turkey ?
Thank you,
From Skiebuster on the NWTF.org forum.

Big Dan said...

Hi Guys!
Sorry about the delay here at the forum.
All questions are appreciated and welcomed.
I have found that using buffer with the larger shot sizes does help when using a full choke. The shot works well without buffer but it will pattern better with a less constrictive choke as shown in the pattern test pictures on our website. ( www.niceshotinc.com )

As comparing Nice Shot to another shot, its characteristics are like that of lead.

As for the heavier payload rounds, I have tested 1-3/4 oz #5 shot loads in my 10 gauge with good success. The pattern from these rounds I found good to excellent but there was more strays or fliers from the main pattern. Reason for this was explained earlier in this forum.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Dan,

My hunting partners and I are looking at doing more of our waterfowling with our muzzleloaders. Thus far, we've done well with a dwindling supply of Bismuth #4s in lieu of lead #5s for ducks, and the one with a choked double has been impressed with them on the Canadas he's shot (medium to small, around here - no giants). Hence the first couple of questions:
- Will Nice Shot work in older (non-steel-shot) barrels without shotcups, or will we have use some sort of shot protectors?
- Have you had any reports of folks using Nice Shot #5s on (smaller) geese, especially at sub-1200fps velocities? I realize we can go to #4s when after geese at our ranges, or even #3s if you ever make them (don't really need #2s), but a one-size-fits-most shot is quite desirable when hunting primarily ducks with muzzleloaders, and #4s would leave the pattern kind of open for teal (assuming we can hit with them!).

On to other matters:
- Can you tell us the Brinell hardness of the TTI alloy? I vaguely recall an impression of maybe mid to upper teens from something on the original version of your website.
- As a slightly off-the-wall question, might the alloy be suitable for use as round-balls for use in areas under lead bans, like the California condor area? If so, is the alloy amenable to home-casting, and/or could you set up to produce the balls for the most common calibers, possibly .440", .490", .530", and .570"? I don't know how familiar you are with front-stuffers, but this is a subject that has generated much anxiety and discussion in muzzleloader hunting circles, and smoothbores don't care how hard the ball is, while rifles can generally use hard-alloy balls in a smaller ball with thicker patch combination.
- For that matter, non-toxic .22RF ammo might be worth investigating for similar reasons.

Thanks

Big Dan said...

Hi Guys!

Nice Shot will work in your barrels without a shotcup, although a dash of graphite would keep any buildup of tin from forming.

#5 will work on smaller geese, a couple of my friends use it in there 20 gauges.

The hardness is 14.9~16.0 Brinell. A little harder than magnum lead shot.

As for the round ball for muzzle loaders. We are looking into manufacturing this in the near future but melting down the shot to cast round balls doesn't work well because the materials do not stay suspended evenly causing an out of balance ball.

Hope this answered your questions. If you have any more concerns, please post or contact me by email.

Thanks,
Dan

Anonymous said...

Dan:
I have been looking for a substitue for Bismuth shot to use in my 12 gauge sxs muzzleloading shotgun and was wondering what size shot you would recommend for ducks and what effective range I could expect to get with niceshot at the lower velocities I would be encountering. I noticed you mentioned below that 5s would work on small geese but wanted to know if you had a feel of how dramatically the effective range would be effected over 4s.

Big Dan said...

I've taken Mallards at 45 yards with the #5 but I checked my pattern before and know that I can put a good pellet count on my quarry. I do have hunting loads at just under 1200 fps with 1-1/16 oz of Nice Shot. I do not see much of a range difference between #4 and #5 shot, just be sure which gives the better pattern at the yardage you will be shooting. Different shot sizes will not pattern the same out of the same gun, there always seems to be some change. If you read some of the prior posts, lower velocities has shown an improvement in pattern quality too.
Hope this answers your question.
Dan

Anonymous said...

What are the pellet counts per oz. for the #6 & 7.5's?

ECOTUNGSTEN said...

There are 350 pellets/oz for #7.5 and 225 pellets/oz for #6. Please see the updated site for detail.

Remington40x said...

Dan:

What special considerations would I need to take into account in reloading Nice Shot in a 2-7/8 inch 10 gauge that dates back to the 1880s? The gun is in excellent condition, with plenty of barrel wall thickness. The right barrel is near cylinder choke, the left full.

Can I substitute Nice Shot for lead and use a standard reloading manual data? Do I need a heavier wad or a mylar liner inside the wad to protect the barrels? Will the Nice Shot peen the choke or is it soft enough to act like lead when it flows through the choke?

Sorry to be so lengthy, but this is a pretty nice hammer gun that I'd like to use on geese this fall, if I can find some non-toxic shot safe for use in the gun.

Big Dan said...

That is a nice shotgun! And I can appreciate your concern about what to use in it. All tests have shown no barrel wear or peening of the chokes using standard lead wads. If you read back through this blog, I also tout the use of lower velocities and balanced loads. Which will be easy in a 10ga 2-7/8. Just for fun last season I used a 1-1/8 oz. load of 7-1/2 at 1150 fps for doves using the 2-7/8 10ga.

Keep the questions and comments comming in everyone!
Dan

Big Dan said...

Hey everyone!

Here is some interesting viewing. If you ever wondered what a shot string looked like flying through the air, check this out!

http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunnut/2008/03/the-worlds-larg.html

Anonymous said...

Hi Dan,
I would be interested in 7.5 shot.
Do you ship to UK?

I had a look at the specification and don't understand how you get a pellet count of 350 with 2.54 mm.
If density is fixed at 10.4 gr/cc, 1 oz of 2.54 mm round pellets should give 318.
Or if you consider a 2.41 mm pellet (i.e. the classical lead shot 7.5) and perform the same calculation, you get 372.

Instead for the other shot sizes my calculation is the same as the specification!

Are these 7.5 pellets spherical and
all with the same size?

Best regards,
P

ECOTUNGSTEN said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I'm not sure that I understand what load data you are using for reloads. Am I correct in understanding that NICESHOT can simply be used interchangeably with lead - same hulls, powder, powder volumes, wads and shot volumes?

Big Dan said...

The UPS interfaces do not seem to work well for international shipping. Please us know your mailing address and what you would like to purchase. We will then let you know how much it would cost including the shipping and handling.

The pellet is not entirely spherical. More accurately it is a cylinder with a spherical tops on both ends. Maybe that why the numbers don't seem to add.

And yes, the pellets are uniform in shape and size within some tolerances, of course.

Big Dan said...

Yes, that is what I designed "Nice Shot" to be. A direct lead replacement. Now keep in mind all good reloading practices, and work up a load. Not starting with a high pressure high velocity load your not familiar with.

Big Dan said...

We have 16 Gauge Ammo available from www.niceshotinc.com

tomkilgore said...

i have been unable to find recipes for 3 inch cheddite hulls using 3/4 oz loads in 410 ga and 2.5 inch 16 ga cheddite hulls using a field load charge. I would appreciate help ion this regard . Thanks, Tom

Big Dan said...

Well Tom that is a good question. I've been doing a lot of digging and haven't come up with much either. I have looked at the reloading data on the IMR powder web site, it has a lot of good loads but not designated for the Cheddite hull. I'm going to email Ballistic Products and Precision Reloading to see what they say. In the mean time if any other readers have any suggestions, please post them here.
Dan

Big Dan said...

Here is the response I received about the Cheddite Hulls:

Dan:
A pleasure to hear from you. At this time of the year we are hanging by our thumbs but always eager to assist shotshell reloaders. Ah, the CHEDDITE hull - in many gauges and lengths. But always standard (the same) in terms of described length and base wad. (As is the FIOCCHI hull). Thus making the reloading of these hulls straight-forward. (A recent examination of five 3" American made hunting hulls demonstrated three different overall lengths and three separate base wad heights. Enough variance to drive a reloader insane.)

BP has many recipes for the CHEDDITE hulls and the FIOCCHI hulls. I recently calculated a potential loads "possibility" structure in a mix of all wads, propellants, primers, hulls, shot types etc. at 118 million recipes... so we have a way to go! BP has many manuals concerning reloading of various shotshells for many purposes but does not have a manual specific to the CHEDDITE hull.

Let us know how we can assist you further... Dave Fackler

: The refferance to BP is Ballistic Products Inc. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Big Dan said...

And by the way I didn't bump my head and place a competitors website on this blog by accident. I know that Nice Shot is the "Best" non-toxic shot on the market and will be for a long time. I just want everyone to be able to get the information they need.
Dan

Anonymous said...

Dan,

Is buffer recommended for loading Nice Shot?

Specifically, I intend to duplicate a target load of 1 Ounce lead shot at 1250 FPS in a AA hull. For Nice Shot sizes 5, 4, and 2 what buffer, if any is needed?

Also, for ducks and occasional geese would 1 1/8 oz Nice Shot loads be much better than 1 oz loads?
-- Or perhaps would 1 1/8 oz be advantageous only for larger shot due to pellet count/hits on target at longer ranges?

My 100 year old damascus LC Smith wants to know...

Respectfully,
Mark Oue

Anonymous said...

If you were going after geese (approx. 30yds., over decoys) would you feel confident in using an ounce of 2's (or 4's)? The gun is choked IC and Mod. I'm trying to justify the cost over the new ITX shot from BP, and need to do so soon.
Also, any feel for how spreader appliances in the shot column would effect 1oz. loads in tighter chokes- say Mod. and Full?
Thanks.

Big Dan said...

Good question,

I not only feel confident, I used a similar load Monday September 1st, our opening day for resident geese. I shot my limit using our "Nice Shot" 12 gauge 2-3/4" 1-1/8 oz #2 shot 1250 fps loads.

I understand the need to save a buck or two, and other options are a little cheaper but the ease of using standard wads and loading data simplifies things immensely.

Also, I am not a big fan of spreader wads but I also consider them a personal preference. 30 yards over decoys, modified choke will work fine. I myself like a tighter pattern and take that extra second to be sure of my shot to put as many pellets on the bird as possible. This also helps when I get a little excited and miss judge the distance.

If you would like to talk about this further contact me on my email: Dan_Tercho@niceshotinc.com

Big Dan said...

Mark,

We've tried buffered and non buffered loads and the only difference that was noticed was a little tighter pattern. Buffer isn't needed but if your familiar with loading buffer it works. The only two buffers we tried were Ballistic Products "Bismuth buffer" and Precision Reloading "Spherical Buffer PSB"

I found no real advantage using buffer, and for the extra work I wouldn't recommend it.

Tony L said...

Dan, what is the pressure in your 12 gauge loads of 4,5,and 6 shot? Shouldn't that be more of as issue than speed when reloading for vintage guns?

Hodgon loading data shows pressure ranges from 8,600 psi - 11,400 psi for a 12 gauge pushing a 1-1/8 oz. load of lead at 1,145 fps. That's a big range and I'm not sure what to use for my vintage LC Smith.

Anonymous said...

I have been reloading NICE shot for about a year. I have been working on low pressure 12,16,20 and 28 gauge loads to be used in vintage guns. I finally got to test some 20 gauge 3/4 oz number 6 on Sharptail grouse in North Dakota. My partner was shooting a CSMC RBL 20 gauge choked IC and Mod. He missed his first two shots but then the next two with one shot each. They were both going away shots at about 40 yards each.
A dissection showed good shot penitration with no shot deformation. I will continue to give reports once the pheasant season starts.

DuckDumper said...

Dan, sounds like good stuff. How does it conform with MEC charge bars, or are universal charge bars necessary? Thanks, Darin

Big Dan said...

Darin,
I use the universal charge bar as a preference, its not necessary but I suggest double checking the weight of the charge using just the bushings. Although I do use it in a "Lee Load All" without any problems.
Dan

Hunter Trav. said...

Hi Dan, I am looking at getting into reloading my own shells. I am currently shooting an old Ithaca 37 Featherlight w/full choke. I want to continue using it as it was my great-grandfathers, and the gun just fits me very well. I mainly hunt big Canada Geese, but I also shoot a few ducks as well. I was wondering what you would recommend for a load for this gun. Thanks for your time.

Big Dan said...

Reloading is a great hobby, and it can save you a few bucks in the long run. For a shotgun like that I wouldn't load anything faster than 1250 FPS velocity. With "Nice Shot" its not needed and you don't have to beat your shotgun ( or yourself ) with a heavy recoil. Here is a link to Hodgdon Powders loading data: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
This site is useful to any reloader!
Dan

Hunter Trav said...

Hey Dan, just thought I'd update you on some Nice Shot testing I recently have done this past weekend. I picked up a box of #2's from Will Bilozir of Bilozir Reloading Supplies here in Alberta. He recomended a load to me using a BPI Bismuth Recipie that he has been using. It uses 1 1/4oz shot, a Fiochi hull, Fio 616 primer, 32 gr. Longshot, a STS/MG42 wad (from BPI) with a 20ga. 1/4" cork filler wad, and a thin overshot card. The velocity is rated @ 1400 fps, with a 10,000 psi rating. What I found was there was too much pressure (possibly due to the Nice Shot going 1500 over), so I started backing the powder charge down a grain at a time, as recomended by Will. Shooting from a rested position @ 40yrds, using a 12ga. Ithaca, 30" bbl, Full choke, the 32gr. loads were pattering at 54% inside the 30" circle. Dropping a grain each time, going down to 26 grains, the percentages were as follows:
31gr.- 58%
30gr.- 68%
29gr.- 77%
28gr.- 68%
27gr.- 56%
26gr.- 45%
As you can see, the 29gr. yeilded the best result, although I need to retest the 28gr. load, as some of the pattern was slightly off the paper, and was probably a bit higher percentage. I think the ideal load will fall between 28-29gr. The only other thing I can say about this load is that I CANNOT wait to try it on some geese. This stuff hits HARD, even the heavy-shot I have tried didn't seem to hit as hard as this load. It even seems like its going to put the wads through the side of the old grainery I shoot at, LOL. Anyways, enough rambling, hope this info helps you out. Thanks.

Gary D. said...

Big Dan,

I've been using your #2 Nice Shot, 1 1/8oz., 28 gr. Longshot, AA hull, W-209 primer, WAA wad. All of my gunning this year has been with my 1924-vintage L.C.Smith Long Range Waterfowl Gun, Ideal Grade, 32" full and full. Here are some of the results. (Love the stuff!)

[IMG]http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/gnoahhh/100_0001.jpg[/IMG]

Dr. Phil said...

Howdy!
Looks like a great product. I plan to buy 2 kilos of the #4. Can the shot be melted down and used for cast bullets like lead? Just curious.
Phil

Big Dan said...

Great photo to a good hunt!!!!!!!

I'll post it on the Nice Shot website!

The link did not publish well, so here it is again.

http://i481.photobucket.com
/albums/rr174/gnoahhh
/100_0001.jpg

Big Dan said...

Dr. Phil,
Glad to hear from you! "Nice Shot" is the best product on the market but I'm sorry to say that it cannot be melted down and re-cast. In doing so the materials do not stay evenly distributed and makes an out of balance projectile.

Anonymous said...

Dan, For a 2 3/4" 12 gauge I want to load 1 1/8 #2 Nice shot for geese using 29 grains of Longshot, 209 primer, With a WAA 12 (White) wad. What are your thoughts?
Thank you,
okraman21403@yahoo.com

Hunter Trav said...

Hey Dan, just an update on some of the loads I was working on. I decided to try and lighten up my loads and see what they would do. I loaded up some 1 oz loads and took them to the pattern board this past weekend. My previous loads had been 1 1/4oz. and they were only acheiving about 77% @ 40yrds. My first 1 oz load patterned @ 90% @ 40 yrds. I must say I was pretty impressed. All the pellets were on paper, within a couple inches of the 30" circle. This load consisted of the following:
- 1 oz #2 Nice Shot
- 28gr Longshot
- STS/MG42 wad
- 2 1/8" cork filler wads
- 1 thin overshot card
- Fio hull and Fio 616 primer
I also tested a 28.5gr and a 29gr load. The 28.5gr load patterned at 80%, the 29gr load dropped significantly lower, down to 58%. I'm going to test a few more, dropping down .5gr each time to see if the pattern can get any better (27.5, 27, 26.5, & 26). I'll keep you posted on the results.

Hikarl said...

Trav did you load an identical lead load to compare against? The aforementioned drafting and bumping might be causing the lower values for the lead loads, so a square load might perform better.

Anyway great data and we are watching.

Karl

Hunter Trav said...

Hey Dan, another update for ya. I tested a couple of the other loads I made up (27.5gr & 27gr.), and the patterns opened up considerably. I was also informed on the shotgunworld forums that longshot can get squirrely when loaded lighter than 28 gr. Due to this fact I decided to do some more testing on the 28 gr load. I did two sets of three shots from mine and my sons Ithaca's (same guns) to see if anything came up. From my gun, the pattern went as follows:
1st shot-90%
2nd shot-87%
3rd shot-78%
From my sons gun the patterns were as follows:
1st shot-93%
2nd shot-91%
3rd shot-56%

I'm not sure why the third shot from my sons gun was so blown out, but it was quite obvious even before counting that it was not even close to the other two. Although the pattern was fairly well spread across the 30" circle, I found it odd that there would be that much difference. Any Ideas as to why this might've happened? The loads were all weighed by hand, I only used my press for priming and crimping. I'm going to try another set of 3 shots from each gun just to see if the pattern repeats itself, hopefully it doesn't, as I'd like to try this load out on some geese to see how well it performs.

Hunter Trav said...

Hikarl, I did not load an identical lead load to compare against. I don't have any large shot lead like #2 to use, and I'm not going to buy any cause I can't use it for anything else. I have since loaded some 1 oz loads, which preformed way better than the 1 1/4oz loads. The data is shown above. Once I round up some more large paper to test on I will post the results from another 3 shot string from each gun to see what it does. I think the results are good enough that I will be using this load on geese this fall. I will try it out anyways, and see how it does, and adjust from there.

steve w said...

ok im sold on the idea of this product. where can i purchase it?

ECOTUNGSTEN said...

Hi Steve,
Pls visit http://ecotungsten.com/shots.html. Then click on the "online store" icon on the upper right hand corner. You may then purchase the shot online.
Regards -- ECOTUNGSTEN

Bill D. said...

I would like to take my 7 year old son on some hunts that require non-toxic shot. Nice Shot be safely loaded in .410 shells? I have seen published load data for bismuth shot but your shot seems to have advantages of bismuth.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Windsor Firearm Restoration said...

any available printed data for reloading Nice Shot. i have checked hodgdon and others but none have any data for Nice Shot. some powder companies can be called and the companies can email data. know of any so to avoid time delay. i load for LC Smith, Parker 12gauge and 2 7/8 10 gauge.

wfr

Big Dan said...

Precision Reloading will be selling "Nice Shot" and have the "1st Edition Nice Shot Manual" out about late spring, early summer 2009.

Big Dan said...

Bill,
Sorry about getting these replies out of order but "Nice Shot" will work fine in the .410 and yes our shot has many advantages over other shot. And in my previous post I mentioned the reloading manual soon to be available at "Precision Reloading".

www.precisionreloading.com

Check them out for all your reloading needs.

Jay said...

Dan

I liked shooting hevi shot 1 3/8 oz @ 1550 #2. It took care of anything i shot (geese, ducks)and had long range possibilities.

How does this stuff compare.

Economics has put me back on steel 1 1/2 bb's 1450

I'm looking for the next affordable thing. Can i use reloading specialties steel componets sam 1 wad

Anonymous said...

What weaknesses have you found with bismuth, which Nice Shot rectifies? What are the densities and hardness of each, compared to lead?

Big Dan said...

I'll try to answer both posts at once.
Starting with Jay,
Nice Shot works excellent and kills with the lethalness of lead. I suggest not trying velocities above 1300 FPS. because of setback increasing pressure and I have not seen many loads for lead above this anyway. There is no need for steel shot wads or components using Nice Shot either. I do not know what you consider long range for geese but I've been using 1-1/8 oz of #2 Nice Shot @ 1250 FPS. and knocking geese dead at 50 yards.


As for Bismuth weighing in at 9.6g/cc is lighter than Nice Shots 10.2g/cc. Bismuth also gets a little lighter if alloyed with tin to keep it from shattering. The hardness is 14.0~16.0 Brinell. A little harder than magnum lead shot. Hevi-shot (12 g/cc) has some outstanding performance but many of us either can't/don't want to shoot the load through our barrels. As for what sets Nice Shot above the other shot types is its ability to be used with older or finer shotguns, lead loading data and components as long as you stay 1500 psi under maximum pressure for the gauge you are loading for.

Yes I do know Nice Shot costs more, but with being patient and good aim you'll use less and still get plenty of ducks and geese. Steel was the worst thing that could ever have happened to waterfowl hunting. With its poor performance and weight it gave a lot of hunters a bad habit of filling the sky with shot and hoping for the best. Last September I hunted with a few new acquaintances for geese. Good people and a lot of fun to be around but when the geese were set about to land they would pop up and unload their guns. Daily limit was 3 birds, I shot 4 rounds. Guy next to me shot 26 rounds. Even using steel that's expensive. We all shot our limit too. You can see an example of this by watching some of the duck and goose hunting programs. Plenty of ammunition goes off, few birds fall.

Big Dan said...

This is an email I received the other day.

hey dan
sorry I didn't get back to you sooner ...
the last week of my duck season I shot buffered niceshot #4's at 1300fps+ and the same load of bismuth #2's exclusively on mallards from my custom muzzleloading shotgun. to say the least I was impressed with the niceshot I had several clean 1 shot kills at over 50 yrds.It was refreshing to take a limit of 4 mallards with 4 shots for most of the week. the impressive part was every bird that I hit was DEAD where it hit the ground. I didn't lose a single cripple the whole week. if you remember I had a rough time getting niceshot to pattern but the work appears to have been worth it.
Unlike most I have currently tried every type of no-tox shot on the market for waterfowling in both cartridge guns and muzzloaders some of which had a real hefty price tag. the only shot type that I haven't actually taken birds with is "ITX" that is only because it took me almost 5lbs of it (at $1.20 an oz) to get it to pattern.
The bottom line is that there isn't a single no-tox on the market that compares to good plated buffered lead but niceshot comes real close.
on another note I am out of nice shot... when do you expect precision to actually have nice shot or do I still order it from you/website?
thanks for making a waterfowling product that actually works for me... not just for the advertising companies
rich

P.S. please, don't even consider putting "belts" , moldrings (or whatever the masses are calling poor pellet design)on your pellets as I have yet to find a pellet of this design to perform outside the range of premium steel

Mark M said...

Hello Dan;

What is the actual density in g/cc of nice shot? I have ordered 4 Kg of #2 and 3 Kg of #5 but I am wondering on the actual density. It seems to have a bit more pressure when reloading if using the same recipies as lead which leads me to believe it is slightly more dense.

Big Dan said...

Hi Mark,

Nice Shot is 10.2g/cc a little lighter than magnum lead shot as I stated in earlier posts. What is happening is Nice Shot being a bit harder 14~16 Brinell ( lead 11~13 ) when fired it does not absorb the energy of the acceleration like lead does. Thus causing a slight increase in pressure. This is why we recommend staying 1500 psi lower than the maximum allowable for the gauge you are loading for. And yes, other harder shot alloys will do the same.

Big Dan said...

Hi everyone! Its getting closer to hunting season again! Just a reminder for everone to keep in practice by shooting a round of trap or sporting clays at your local gun club.

Dan

Anonymous said...

Hi Big Dan,
I would buy a 1kg of shot N6 and try to reload my 20ga cartridges. I have already sent an e-mail to Ecotungsten because I cannot find a quote for shipping to UK when I use the checkout.....

Best regards,
P.R.

Big Dan said...

For a shipment out of United States delivery area, email or call for shipping a quote.

Minnesota said...

Dan,

Can I use # 4 shot for Canada geese? or do I need to step up to # 2 shot? My plan is to use 1 oz loads @ 1250 fps, and then test the patterns to see how they turn out, but I wasn't sure about taking geese with # 4 at that velocity because the hevi-shot loads I was using previously were @ 1300 fps or more? I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Mike

Big Dan said...

Hi Mike,

#4 shot will work fine but it also has its limitations like other shots. I've even used #5 for close range shooting and placing the pellet count in the head and neck area. If you are shooting past the 40 - 45 yard mark I'd suggest the #2. And also if it is later in the season when the geese have more fat and thicker down, I prefer the #2. Never mind what the other cartridge companies are selling for velocity, a lot of it feeds on the idea that "more or faster is better" not always true. A good even pattern and getting the shot on the bird makes the differance. Hope this helps!!

Dan

Minnesota said...

Thanks a bunch, Dan! I am really looking forward to trying a few reloads with Nice Shot. I'll let you know how the patterns turn out.

Mike

Big Dan said...

Hello everybody! I hope the season is treating everyone well. Just back from a weekend hunt in New York. I have to say I learned a new respect for my 16 gauge! I shot my limit of ducks both days and didn't bruise my shoulder with recoil. Most ducks were between 30-40 yards out and 1-1/8 ounce of #6 Nice Shot dropped them in the water dead. I would like to hear if anyone else has been out hunting, tell your story, send some pictures to share, just let me know what's been going on!

Good Hunting!
Dan

Brian H said...

Dan:

Here is some useful information for those who reload 28 gauge shells. By the way, I am a neophyte reloader that recently started reloading (after a 30 year hiatus) because my son wanted, and received, a MEC 650 Jr. reloader for Christmas last year. With some help from the folks at MEC I converted the .410 3" reloader to a 2 3/4" 28 gauge reloader. I did this specifically to reload Ecotungsten #5 shot for duck hunting.

Using both Lyman and Alliant reloading guides I found an absolutely devastating duck load. Using Remington STS hulls, Remington 209 primers, Duster 2834 wads that substitute for Win. WAA28 wads, I dropped 3/4 oz. of NICE shot over 13.4 grains of Unique Powder. (powder calculations were weighed from a 5 drop average using a #21 MEC powder bushing). Obviously, everyone should perform a similar measurement before each reloading session. Velocity averages 1,211fps at approximately 11,400psi.

Having shot 300+ reloads this season without a misfire-and despite some accidental immersions in marsh water - my 28 gauge CZ Ringneck S/S, and my son's 28 gauge CZ Redhead O/U delivered clean kills on decoyed ducks. In fact, we had far fewer cripples and more one-shot kills using 28 gauges than we ever had using our 12 gauges. I suspect this has more to do with our discipline in waiting for the ducks to be within killing range, but after cleaning dozens of ducks I discovered that most of the time Ecotungsten shot passes through the duck! In total I recovered 7 pellets from the duck we shot this season. I was very impressed.

By the way, we shot improved cylinder & modified chokes the whole season. Normally, a 35-40 yard shot is ideal range for a clean kill.

Hope this helps other reloaders. I will try to attach a two man limit of Blue Wing teal taken with our reloads.

Brian H.

Anonymous said...

I'm an upland shooter who prefers the small gauges/bores, 28 gauge and .410. I tried the Nice Shot beginning last year. I loaded it just like lead in my skeet/target loads. Velocities are around 1100 fps on the 28, 1250 in the.410. Only shot the 28 last year, but it was effective enough that I went ahead and shot the .410 1/2 oz load this year, all #7. Shooting quail over pointing dogs so the ranges are close, the stuff hammers birds. I'm shooting skeet choke in the 28 and mod in the .410. I'm convinced the Nice Shot holds tighter patterns than lead and it definitely puts the birds down.

In my MEC loaders it doesn't flow through the loader quite like lead, so in both gauges, watch to make sure the shot falls into the shell. Maybe tap the feed tube if needed. Other than that it loads the same.

The stuff aint cheap, but it beats the alternatives, you gain economics by going small gauge, is easy on the shotgun, and it kills like lead or better.

CaliforniaSkeeter

Anonymous said...

Hi all,
I bought some Ecotungsten n.6 shot some months ago and tested several shot-shells in the field.
I have found a cracking recipe for my 20 ga using the Hi-Skor 800-X and dropped 2 to 2.5 lbs pochards at incredible ranges....some of them well above 35 yards with less than 1 oz, for sure!
I am using 67 mm Cheddite hulls and NobelSport U684 primer (which is the less poweful of the NobelSport series.....approximately the NobelSport U686 is similar to the common American primers used in 1 oz 20 ga lead shot-shells, while the U688 is most powerful primer). The wad is an Italian type made by "La Balistica", model LB6. This wad is a pretty simple tube with four petals and no plastic cushion. Instead it has a cork disc inside- placed under the shot- for cushioning that can be changed in height as needed. The reason for the 67 mm hull is because I can get a perfect star crimp with the pellets all within the wad. The load data are as follows: NobelSport U684 primer, Cheddite 67 mm hull, 20 grains of Hi-Skor 800-X, LB6 wad (for 1 oz loads in 70 mm , i.e. 2-3/4 inches, hulls), 27 grams of Nice Shot n.6. The final length of the shell is 58 mm (that is the standard length for a 67 mm hull with a star crimp in 20 ga). Very soon I will make some pressure tests. However the shell is very smooth on the shoulder and very lethal on the quarry. I am very satisfied!
Thanks,
Pierpaolo.

Anonymous said...

need a reloading recipe for Win HS hulls claybuster HS wad, win 209 primer with unique powder for a 28 guage using nice shot 5's 3/4 of an ounce also will wad slick help with the velocities and higher pressures of nice shot

thanks aaron

Big Dan said...

Hi Aaron,
I've been doing some research and pouring over the loading data available to me and came to the conclusion that I do not have enough experience with the 28 gauge to comfortably recommend a recipe. Although I think Hurco would be a better choice than using Unique.

Precision Reloading's Technical Support will help you with your
loading questions and data. They can be contacted at 605-996-9984
to speak with a technician 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM CST.

My apologies for not having the exact data you were looking for.
Dan

Mike R. said...

Hi aaron,

I've been using ecot. for two seasons now, #5s work very well on pheasants over my pointing dog, Parker. I use 13/16oz, that is the amount droped from my mec 7/8 oz lead charge bar.
I must agree with Dan in that unique is not the best powder choice, it may be a little fast.
I use longshot for my 3/4oz loads and lilgun for my 7/8 and 1oz loads.

The 28 bore is quite sensitive to small changes in the load recipe, so caution and a good scale are manditory.

That said, there are good loads to be found in the hodgdon loading manual, that is free from your powder supplier, or at http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Personally I think that 3/4oz of #5s would create a pattern that is a little thin.

Wad slick is recomended by Ballistics Products for their wads. The purpose is to reduce the initial friction of the wad inside the small diameter hull.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Mike R.

Big Dan said...

Thanks for the input Mike! And thank you for using Nice Shot! Like I said in an earlier post, I do not have enough experience with the smaller gauges to make a proper suggestion, although I do like Blue Dot powder for a lower pressure load. The topic I find myself talking with others now is shot size. We have accepted using 2 or 3 shot sizes larger than lead to get the knock down or killing energy needed. Other non-toxic shot such as steel are ineffectual due to the light weight thus causing the shot size increase and a less dense pattern causing more cripples. Nice Shot gives us the ability to use a smaller shot size 4, 5, 6, & 7-1/2 where we used to use BBB, BB and #2. Big difference in pellet count. I've taken a lot more ducks this passed year with my 16 gauge 1-1/8 ounce of #6 than I have using my 10 gauge with 1-5/8 ounce BB steel.

Big Dan

Brian said...

Loaded Ecotungsten for our 28 gauges to hunt ducks this season. Your shot proved to be extremely effective. Will try to send some photos Dan.

Thanks

Big Dan said...

Thanks Brian!

If you cannot get the pics to post, send them to my email: Dan_Tercho@niceshotinc.com

Ken said...

Hey Dan,
I'm wanting to load some Nice Shot for my 3rd shell for ducks.. and also, for longer, down-river shots on ducks(mallards). I'm thinking the #4's?? Would #5 be okay,, or should I stick with the #4's?

And for these applications, do you think the 7/8oz, or 1.125oz??

And,, I know you recommend 1250fps.. The practice shells I shoot are 1290fps; does the pattern break down after 1250?

Thanks!.... Ken

Big Dan said...

Hi Ken,

This is one of those tricky questions.

As for the shot size: My favorite is #6 out to about 45 yards on mallards. This is out of my 16ga, 1-1/8 ounce at 1250 - 1300 fps. Depending on what you want, #6 & #5 would be a denser pattern, #4 would carry enough energy to take out a Canadian.

As for the weight and the velocity: Use what you are comfortable with and patterns well. I suggest 1250 fps because it is more than effective and your not punished by the recoil of a light shotgun.

OK, now the difficult answer. More and more I'm hearing from people that use steel for the first two rounds and hevi or bismuth or Nice Shot as a last round in their shotgun. The difference in characteristics of the shot types causes more misses than one thinks. You'll probably find that if you use just one load and know how it shoots, bear down on your aim, swing, and follow through, you'll see you're using less ammo with better results.

Hope this helps,
Dan

Anonymous said...

Dan, I saw you post about using the 16 gauge. I have enough 12 ga shells for this year but have a yearning to shoot my old 16 gauge at ducks. Given to me by my dad when I was in late grade school. I have had the choke tubes replaced with thin wall exchangeable chokes, and had the trigger re-done. Been shooting it for skeet versus my 12 ga auto for a change. Beginning to really enjoy shooting it and would like to get some load data. Would you mind sharing your complete recipe, including hulls, primers etc for your 16 gauge Nice shot loads.
Thanks,
Nate B Cincinnati, OH

Big Dan said...

Hi Nate,
To be honest, I place an order with the company I hired to manufacture the ammunition for me, I give them the specs that I want, and they do the rest and send me the pressure test report.

Precision Reloading has compiled the reloading data for Nice Shot.

Precision Reloading's Technical Support will help you with your
loading questions and data. They can be contacted at 605-996-9984
to speak with a technician 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM CST.

Soon to have a Nice Shot reloading manual available too.

Ron Z said...

Does anyone have a favorite recipe for a quality Duck load using # 4 or #6 nice shot.

Big Dan said...

Hi Ron,

What gauge??

Dan

Anonymous said...

Hello Dan - is this Blog still active?

I am interested in reloading Nice Shot here in the UK for my double 8 bore using brass cartridges and either nitro or black powder. Barrels are Damascus, no chokes (pre 1875), and whilst I am very keen to investigate NiceShot, can't afford for any harm to come to my pride and joy. Have sent you an e-mail separately, but keen to see if this blog still going and whether anyone has any similar experience. Thanks in advance.

Big Dan said...

Hello,

Yes this blog is still active. And there was a gentleman that went by the nickname "8 bore" he had good results with Nice Shot also. I just have to go through my records to see if I can find him and I'll send and email.

Big Dan

brandon said...

well i just ordered my first order of nice shot i will be shooting a old cva muzzleloader, i got size 4 and 2 for mostly goose hunting and the ocasional duck, do you have any recomendations as to powder charges with black powder

Willard Lowe said...

Dan:

As I read through the load data that came with a packet of #5 Nice Shot I was suprised to see no Green Dot or UNIQUE for 1 & 1 1/8 oz. loads. There are several loads in the 8000 psi range for both in 12 ga. loads. Further looking and I realised that no powders faster than Universal on a burn rate chart wre shown. This does not seem to be by chance. Does the fact that Nice Shot does not deform/compress on set back cause the powders faster than Universal to spike too high to be used? Or maybe an old reloader who started reloading in 1961 just hasn't kept up with the the reloading world. I'm just curious.

Big Dan said...

Willard,

Unique and Green Dot weren't left out intentionally. It is just difficult to retest every recipe available. And yes, using a load in the 8000 psi range will give you the 1500 psi cushion I suggest. Now I'll confuse the topic. All tested loading data is compiled from actual weight of Nice Shot. (1-1/8 ounce equals 1-1/8 ounce ) but Nice Shot being 95% the weight of lead will drop light out of a 1-1/8 once bushing. Same pellet count, just less weight. (1-1/8 ounce pellet count 1-1/16 ounce actual weight.) Precision Reloading's Technical Support will help you with your loading questions and data. They can be contacted at 605-996-9984 to speak with a technician 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM CST.

Dan

Willard Lowe said...

Dan:

Thank you for the responce. You were first on my list. Precision tech support is second. I've read all I could find about Nice Shot here, Shotgun World, Randy Wakeman, etc. When I talk to Precision I will be asking about published loads from Alliant and Hogdon with "chapter and verse" at my finger tipss so they can easily verify if needed. Weather is warming up and I am anxious get lead loads on paper for baseline reference to compare the Nice Shot to.

Willard

Labman1052 said...

Great information, Dan. Thanks for all of your input answering the myriad of questions. I'm looking forward to loading for both my 20 ga. and 28 ga. O/Us. Just wondering if your web-site, www.niceshotinc.com is still active? I've tried to access it numerous times and have been bounced out each time. Gratefully,

Don

Labman1052 said...

Thanks for all of the great input, Dan. I appreciate all of your patient and informative answers to the myriad questions posted. I'm looking forward to loading for my grandfather's Browning 20 ga. O/U for ducks this next season. Just wondering if your web-site, www.niceshotinc.com, is still active? I've tried accessing a number of times and have been bounced out each time. Not that big of a deal since this site has answered more issues than I have questions. Keep up the good work. It's a great product.

Anonymous said...

Dear Big Dan,

How hard is Nice Shot on teeth? One crown due to steel shot is enough!

Ken

brandon k said...

I bought some #4 and loaded an 1 1/8 at 1580fps with a windjamer wad and all i can say is wow. Dad was using steel and hit a duck that he thought was close but didn't heed mine and deans warning so when it flew and i conected it droped like a rock complete pass through of all my shot we could see where it exited the other side of the breast meet. Me and dean figured dad shot at about 50 yards we steped 53 paces and figured my shot was a hair further when i conected with it, amzing stuff it really is.

Willard Lowe said...

Dan, Took two geese today. They finished in the decoys an my pardner and I each had a load of #5 Nice Shot in the barrel. He had 15/16 oz. and I Had 13/16 oz. Both were 12 ga. at about 1275 fps. Crumpled the birds, dead in the air. Next time, the second shot will be same as the first. This was our trial run with Nice Shot.

Big Dan said...

Anonymous said...
Dear Big Dan,

How hard is Nice Shot on teeth? One crown due to steel shot is enough!

Ken

October 14, 2012 4:07 PM

About the same as lead.
Dan

Anonymous said...

I have been shooting Nice Shot since 2008. First year I shot 1 oz loads of #5 at about 1250fps in my 1962 Browning Superposed Twelve choked about Mod and Full. Since then I have shot 7/8s of #6 in a 1958 Twenty Superposed choked Full and Fuller. My comments are the stuff is pretty remarkable and is very effective. My load for the Twenty was pressure tested by Precision Reloading (for free), is in a RP Premier hull, RXP wad, W-W primer with H Longshot for about 1275fps. As stated above it is remarkable (if pointed correctly with the tight chokes), is quiet (which I like as my Drahthaar is always alongside me in the blind) and has a very light recoil. This is fun to shoot and creates quite a WOW factor alongside shooting companions with bigger guns. Wish I had a Twentyeight I loved as I am sure that would create even more raised eybrows than the low brass Twenty hulls that come out of the tubes after a 'lights out" in the air fold on a far one.

This is fun!

Ted S